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Talk:Tactics (Origins)
Advanced Tactics link appears to be broken. **Update: Not broken. Apparently, a temporary server issue** The text which links to Advanced Tactics mod seems to be a broken link. Leaving this note instead of changing it because it could be a temporary server issue. I find that the tactics menu is confusing and does not seem to offer very useful choices or good defaults, so I created the page in the hopes that some good information can be gathered to help with these important settings. A great deal more work needs to be done on this page, obviously. Not sure if this is what you are looking for, but my thoughts: Tactics are a great way to avoid pausing and babysitting your party every 2 seconds (although higher levels of difficulty will still require a great deal of micro-management). Having a Mage or Bow user use "Enemy (Lowest Health) -> Attack (or spell)" can be useful to keep normal combat running smoothly. A little counter-intuitive, but I also recommend changing Morrigan's default "If swarmed by >2 monsters -> Mind Blast." It seems like a good idea, but AoE stuns like Mind Blast are very powerful tools and you'll generally want control over them yourself (to prevent the AI from burning it against three genlocks when there's an Emissary and hurlock Alphas charging in).--Ocdscale 05:15, November 5, 2009 (UTC) =Can't figure Tactics out= I'm having a lot of difficulty figuring this out. What I know is that I don't like how my teammates behave on their own, nor do I want to constantly pause to issue individual orders every 2 seconds. This Tactics interface seems like the tool to use to mod how your teammates' AI works, in order to make them behave more like you'd like them to, but I can't seem to figure out how to make it work. For example, I've got a tank (Alistair), an off tank/melee DPS (Sten), a Rogue (me), and a caster (Morigan atm). I've given each of them a longbow as their 2nd weapon (primary for rogue). This is what I'm trying to engineer: * No one fires until I do * Everyone fires at the same time and at the same target I fire at * Keep shooting whatever I shoot at until the enemy comes into melee range * Once that happens, do your normal class job (tank if you're a tank, CC if you're a CC caster, etc.) but ** Don't die (heal yourself if you health hits 50% ** Don't chase. If the enemy runs away, switch back to the bow and shoot them Is this what the Tactics feature is supposed to allow us to engineer? If not, what is the purpose? If so, is what I'd like to do possible? If so, how? Servius 06:10, November 7, 2009 (UTC) Stealth can be activated out of combat via Self:Any -> Activate:Stealth. : Try this. Everyones behaviour is set to Defensive. #Self:Health < 50% - Use health Poltice least powerful (most powerful for Alistair/Sten) #Enemy:Target at short range - Switch to melee weapon #Enemy:Target at medium and long range - Switch to ranged weapon #Enemy:Any - Specific Attacks #Enemy:Target of main character - Attack : Chris 11:48, May 1, 2010 (UTC)Chris =Bug with Presets= So after completing 3 of the 4 treaty quests, I went around and bought all the available tomes and used them. After doing so, I went through my tactics and tried to set up the presets to see what they would give me, and every single characters preset menu was blank except for the main characters.. Every tactic slot went to "(Target): (Condition)" and the action menu was all grayed out. I've seen that in party camp. Just form a party, go somewhere, and make your changes.Herwin 08:35, January 8, 2010 (UTC) Tactics presets Do we REALLY need an explanation of the presets like this? If anything, either add to the explanation of the presets, or remove the explanation completely. You can't even call it an explanation, because it doesn't tell you anything that you didn't know by the name of the preset. Dehabilitator ::Usable by: Mage :A Dehabilitator... Now, I do see that the "Usable by:" thing is good. But why did anyone even bother to add the "A Dehabilitator"? Is there someone that agrees? If someone did not understand that a dehabilitator, actually is a dehabilitator, then one might ask how the even can read. I've been documenting the presets based on the source, where some of those funny terms show up. I've also been noting the adjustments I make to fit the presets to my style of play. The defaults tend to heal low level characters too late, never restore mana or stamina, and fail to use healing poultices. I've also discovered the Use command is borked--it loses its object when you save a set of tactics, and you have to manually fix it and resave. Herwin 10:45, January 23, 2010 (UTC) : It's great that you are documenting the presets. (And the various associated bugs.) Thank you for taking the time to do that. : I recommend that we keep personal variations in our user spaces (or on the talk pages). It's worth documenting (in mainspace) if the presets have some obvious gap (e.g. if a Mage preset failed to include mana restoration). (Although, some failings will be in the eye of the beholder.) — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 06:38, January 24, 2010 (UTC) :: The main reason people are looking for tactics advice is that the standard presets are less than optimal and the mechanisms are very unclear. Unless people are short on slots, they will be designing custom presets, and they would like some intelligent advice on how. My approach is to take the standard presets and make a limited number of changes, which I've noted. We probably need to discuss the Use bug in the same section. Herwin 08:31, January 24, 2010 (UTC) :: I might add that one of the editors has been promulgating serious misinformation about how tactics work and how the interface works. The Combat Tactics skill controls the number of actions that appear in a preset and not the number of presets. The default actions that appear are those the character may take. Finally, the Self any condition works fine. Herwin 08:31, January 24, 2010 (UTC) ::: Naturally, folks are looking for tactics advice: the presets are largely undocumented, the number of custom tactics are limited, and the interface (while powerful) is quirky and somewhat non-intuitive. I absolutely agree that this wiki should offer advice; I strongly believe we should keep it distinct from our documentation of the presets themselves. ::: In an article this long, there's bound to well-intentioned edits are phrased improperly. There's no need to chastise anyone; simply correct the mistake. If it happens more than once, discuss here on the talk page. Often, wiki information isn't incorrect so much as subject to interpretation. ::: Regarding the Self: Any condition: I agree it works as designed. However, it's also misleading; for example, in combination with Action: Attack, none of the subsequent conditions will ever be checked. Although that's not a bug, it's worth documenting because people are likely to put common condition/actions towards the top (instead of at the end). — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 20:42, January 24, 2010 (UTC) ::::Yup, yup!! That's exactly what I did. When I realized some tactics were rarely firing, if at all, it was back here to study up. BTW thanks to all who worked on this article. We don't realize how essential to a positive experience tactics really are until we muck em up. Don't know why I didn't make the program connection. My set up looked like this: ::::#Self heal ::::#Activate buffs ::::#Attack Enemy of character, the easiest way I know to get party focus on the most dangerous foe; however, most of the time, with normal foes, they die quickly. Meaning the tactics rarely make it past slot 3. --Tobin 18:23, October 15, 2010 (UTC) Preset Behaviors The table describing the preset behaviors appears to contain some errors. For example, Defender is intended as the Tank default and is not as passive as indicated. Herwin 15:24, January 25, 2010 (UTC) =Combat only triggers= Am having some problems in figuring out which conditions trigger in combat and which conditions can trigger in exploration. For example i have no problem in programming my mages to have rock armor all the time even when exploring with self:any, but Alistair cant use Self:any->Shield defense when exploring. Now since some conditions only trigger during combat according to this article am counting out this being bug(for now), although some confirmation would be nice. For my rogues is the same, i can keep them with stealth during combat but the not the other activated skills in exploration. So far i have, Triggers that only work for me only in combat: "Shield defense", "song of valor", "shield cover", "threaten", "indomitable", "powerful swings", potions and venoms. Skills that work on exploration: "rock armor","stealth","spider shape", "bear shape", "heroic offense". (Most of mage's spells work for me on exploration). Osborn18 16:23, February 14, 2010 (UTC) =Tactics specific actions= It would be nice to have an explanation of some of tactic actions like "wait" or "jump to tactic" and/or an example of their use. 06:31, March 19, 2010 (UTC) ---- =Math Symbols= I'm confused. Maybe it's just me but these symbols make my brain hurt. I'm pretty sure Health < 10% means when health falls below 10%. Is this Health >= 50% supposed to mean Health ≥ 50%? I'm assuming they mean Health is equal to or greater than 50%? My apologies if this makes me sound like a moron but it's about as clear as mud to me. --Tobin 09:35, October 13, 2010 (UTC) :Spot on. An action guarded by "Health=X%" will trigger when the character's health is higher than or equal to X. An interesting side effect for such actions is that they are performed when being outside of combat, because then health will eventually go to 100% thereby triggering all those actions. That can be used to deactivate buffs when not being in combat mode. --Pp2009 (talk) 10:15, October 13, 2010 (UTC) Great! Thanks for the confirmation. Not that it matters but I still wonder, anyone know if >= is an actual mathematical symbol or just an artistic representation? --Tobin 18:23, October 15, 2010 (UTC) : Well it's a common way of expressing ≥ in programming languages as C/C++ or Java. I guess the coder simply used a notation that tey are used to. And sometimes ≥ is not part of the font in use. So that might have been another reason. --Pp2009 (talk) 19:10, October 15, 2010 (UTC) Ahh it makes much more sense now, thanks again. You're a handy one to have around. /smirk ---- More Questions I'm looking for an article that explains the ranks of various enemy types? The conditions page just reiterates what the game does, anyone have some suggestions? Also looking for ideas on how to get Morrigan to fire her cone of cold at the cluster before the party becomes part of it? I'm assuming it's a space issue, e.g., the cluster is too far apart till the fight begins? The daft woman freezes us as much as them, though to be honest it actually fits with her personality and demeanor. As we slowly turn into ice sculptures, I can almost hear her chuckling. Anyone else notice a missing edit button on new topics added? --Tobin 18:04, October 16, 2010 (UTC) : Enemy ranks can be found here. And for the Cone of Cold issue: I do not think that there is a way of telling her not to do this. Maybe there is a mod that might help (afaik there is one that adds a lot of advanced tactics options). I usually do not assign AoE spells that do friendly fire to tactic slots. I tend to trigger such things manually when appropriate. But as a hint, I always tell my mages to cast Stone First on frozen or petrified enemies automatically (with top most priority). --Pp2009 (talk) 18:46, October 16, 2010 (UTC) Enemy conditions that do not change enemy target In my experience, use of an Enemy condition will always switch targets if there is an enemy on the field that meets the criteria. I've tested using: Enemy: Health (%), Enemy: At range, and Enemy: Using attack type... I do have the Advanced Tactics mod, so I'm not sure if it changes these. Could someone confirm before I edit? --Loderunner (talk) 18:45, November 2, 2010 (UTC) Using Tactics to Switch Weapon Sets I enjoy my games with a challenge, so I usually play with the difficulty set at least to Hard. I'm sure many of us are familiar with the problems that brings: enemies don't die as fast, allies die sooner, more susceptibility to debuffs, friendly fire, and so on. Well, I figured I would try to take an advantage over my enemies by assigning all my characters a ranged weapon on one set and a melee weapon on the other (with the exception of mages and archers, of course; those will obviously be kept at long range). The idea is that melee specialists will attack with a bow until the enemies close distance, then switch to their melee weapons and proceed to hand out punishment like they're built to. However, these guys usually get stuck in a constant loop of "switching weapon sets". The problem occurs most often when I use a "Target at range" condition but has also occurred with "Being attacked by type of attack" conditions. And if they don't get stuck in a constant loop of switching weapons, then they use incorrect behaviors altogether (Alistair shooting off with bows despite all tactics being melee-based and the enemies being at close range, for example). Is there a set-up that I am overlooking that will help me attain what I am striving for, or is the inconvenient use of "jump to tactic" conditions pretty much necessary? Armored Cavalry (talk) 21:50, December 13, 2010 (UTC) Mana % Worries... If you tell a character to use a mana potion whenever they fall bellow 75% mana and you then tell it to always have a passive aura on that has 50% upkeep, will it be drinking mana pots constantly (Because you will always be bellow 75% of your true maximum mana) or will it only drink the pots when they fall to 37.5% mana, which is 75% of the current maximum mana? How does cluster works? When Leliana got When Clustered with same group, 3+ then use grenade, she throws it not at the enemy, but under her feet, inflicting a lot of damage to party, but when I set same condition for a mage, but to cast fireball instead of using granade he shots at the mobs. Any way to make Leliana using grenades on mobs instead on herself? Shale auto activate and deactivate Stone Aura Is there a way to make shale automatically activate stone aura when the battle begins and deactivate it afterward? I can get it to activate fairly easily with "Enemy: Any - Activate: Stone Aura" but then I have to manually deactivate it after each battle because shale cant move with it active. I read in the article under Tactics#Mechanics_Details about possibly using "Self: Game Mode: Combat" (and I assume an accompanying "Non Combat" for deactivation) but there doesnt appear to be a "Game Mode" option on xbox. Need clarifying Under the Specific tips, annoyances, and bugs section: * In the downloaded Icon ps3 version, there's a glitch were if you set your characters up to use two different weapon types (ranged, and melee), the character will - in combat of course - do a dance as they swap weapons back and forth; even while getting killed. Setting different reasons for changing weapons has no affect on this suicidal heebee geebee. All characters, for "safety reasons" are thus rendered single fighting style. Disregarding the comical wording (which I can clean up) what exactly is meant by this? How do the characters "do a dance" and how does that make it suicidal? Does it cause lag or something? I'm confused, and I don't understand the last sentence at all. Kelcat (talk) 17:24, December 18, 2013 (UTC) :I think it means that if you have tactics set up that involve switching weapons at any point (e.g. switch to ranged weapons if enemy is at long range; switch to melee weapons if enemy is at short range), then the tactic conditions (long range or short range) are ignored and the character just stands there, switching between melee and ranged weapons, and not attacking at any point. I don't understand that last line, either - I'm guessing it's a suggestion to only use one style in the tactics, rather than a description of something that a mod or developer has done. -Sophia (talk) 15:21, December 19, 2013 (UTC) 'Jump to: {X}' does not work? Wonder if anyone understands how and why this occurs: When I set a tactic 1) Self Mana/Stamina >= 10%, Jump to 3. 2) Self Health >= 75%, Activate Blood Magic. 3) ... My companion(s) keep activating Blood Magic, even while exploring, while they clearly have over 10% Mana left. Really do not understand. I thought 'Jump to tactic' would mean that on every run of the tactics, it would jump past the inappropriate tactics (in this case, Tactic 2, unless low on Mana). And if there's no way around that, wonder if there's any other way to perform an action only when two different conditions are met? I'm on Xbox 360, Ultimate edition. It's not just this example, I've never been able to 'skip' tactics using 'jump tactic'. It's hard to find good information on this online (or at least, I can't find it). Might be great to add a little more on 'Jump tactic' and the possibility (or impossibility) of skipping actions, on this Fandom. Ace-089 (talk) 00:12, December 12, 2019 (UTC)